В мои руки попала удивительная статья от одного из основателей DIR/GUE Jarrod Jablonski озаглавленная им ничтоже сумняшеся
"Смерть технического дайвинга !"
Статья была опубликована в первом номере ADM.
Особенно весело было видеть фон на 38 странице, хорошо посмеялся.
Мне как вечному AOWD и человеку воспринимающему дайвинг как отдых были малоинтересны все прописные истины изложенные в этой статье, куда больше меня заинтересовало КАК это человек излагал свои мысли.
Теперь мне совершенно очевидно что "Mr. Experience" GI просто дитя неразумное по сравнению с этим человеком, который судя по всему имеет образование психолога, либо писал данный текст при прямой поддержке профессионального психоаналитика либо шамана с бубном на котором написано NLP.
В высшей степени забавное чтиво, давно не получал удовольствия от столь профессионально составленного опуса казалось бы на столь далекую от реальной жизни вещь как дайвинг.
Дабы не быть обвиненным в очередной раз в тенденциозности и нападках на DIR/GUE привожу оригинальный англоязычный текст статьи. Ну а дальше - кому действительно это интересно и хочет разобраться, тот найдет время и силы и прочтет, а прочим любителям быстрых ответов переводных статей, выжимок, компиляций и иных, говоря компьютерным сленгом, FAQ это думаю и не нужно.
Jedem das seine.
JJ: The Death of Techical Diving
Модераторы: трофи, KWAK, DukeSS
Последний раз редактировалось Faceless 10-02-2007 20:58, всего редактировалось 4 раза.
Jarrod Jablonski
The death of technical diving !
Change can come so quickly that sometimes it goes unnoticed. Many divers can remember that, in the not too distant past, groups like PADI marshaled to ban technical diving from the scuba industry's largest annual trade show. And diving leaders were outspoken against it, like SkinDiver editor Bill Gleason who led the charge, claiming that Enriched Air Nitrox was Snake Oil. Well, times are changing. Even PADI, a true bastion of recreational training, has an enriched air program. And agencies like NAUI are tugging hard on the purse strings of technical diving. NAUI is going full speed ahead with rebreather, deep air, and trimix training. It does not take a soothsayer to imagine a time when most recreational organizations will cross the technical frontier. This recent change of heart by recreational organizations leads one to ponder these rapidly changing times. For example, why are organizations, many of whom avoided the hint of technical diving like the plague, suddenly embracing technical diving with a new found fervor? Perhaps less obviously one might ask how these evolutions might change the very fabric of technical diving? For example, what defines technical diving if it becomes commonplace? The activities associated with technical diving (deep, non-standard gas mixtures, overhead environment) have always been a bit out of the mainstream. In fact, it was Mike Menduno's Aquacorps that first coined the term, and made its associated activity, more mainstream. Aquacorps, a now defunk magazine, was the first magazine to cater almost exclusively to this growing market. Many diving leaders paid only distant attention as Aquacorps and its flamboyant style began a dialogue that openly discussed historically taboo topics. Yet, as the numbers grew and new markets were developed, it became increasingly difficult to ignore their impact. Interestingly enough, this technical diving minority, seemed to be filled with the stuff of market analysts' dreams. While their ranks were small, the technical community contained active divers. They were willing to travel, and they liked to spend money. One can see evidence of the growing impact of technical diving by reviewing the growth of the companies and services that catered to their interests. Even solidly recreational manufacturers have begun to nip at this unique market. The financial incentives associated with the growth of technical diving bring us full circle and back to the interesting trend of open water agencies starting to embrace technical diving. The more mainstream aspect of technical diving has brought about many changes with multi-gas computers and commonly available rebreathers. How then is the changing landscape of dive training going to impact technical diving? One might naturally assume this change could be for the better as larger organizations bring their financial might and varied resources to bear in the creation of new training materials and a widely expanded market. Yet, others might be justified in their concerns as they ask if these organizations are qualified for such training? The standards by which one might evaluate the qualifications of individuals or organizations are fraught with personal opinions and individual bias. Consider some of the unique complications. Diving in general, and more particularly technical diving, is a self-regulated activity, forcing business entities to regulate and thereby limit their own business. Some might argue that this is a bit like asking the fox to regulate the hen house, but in the larger scheme it has met with fair success. Most probably, because it is in the best interest of all training organizations to prevent government intervention, thereby creating added incentive for self-regulation. Yet, we have seen a progressive trend toward easier courses and more streamlined training. Courses appear to be growing shorter and less academically robust every year. The "anyone can dive" mentality propagated by many mainstream recreational groups seems to conveniently impact the fiscal bottom line. The debate over what a student must do to become qualified is a matter of significant debate, but it is an inescapable reality that people grow better with experience. However, it seems to be more the rage to reduce educational time or even more recently to eliminate any specific time requirement. To be sure, diving on a calm day in warm water on a 30-foot deep reef is not filled with many difficulties. The simplicity of such activities has led to discussions of a coup in novice training, allowing individuals only the most minimal time before they are allowed to begin diving. Some individuals promote the elimination of many fundamentals in the training curriculum. Why waste time with tables when we have computers? And why bother with air sharing if we dive shallow? Certainly the declining time requirements associated with recreational training are a discussion unto themselves but this trend will necessarily have an impact upon technical diving. Consider that many leading technical educators already have great difficulty with the low knowledge and skill level of even advanced open water divers. Indeed, many an open water instructor has proven unqualified for certain forms of technical training. A further dimming of dive qualifications in the open water community coupled with the infiltration of recreational agencies into technical diving leads one to ponder the repercussions. Will the fiscal decisions and mass market demands that guide most businesses drag down the qualifications and ultimately the abilities of the technical diving student? What about the technical training agencies? The previous discussion has focused largely on the dilemma of recreational organizations entering the technical training arena. This might lead one to assume that some consensus exists as to the superiority of technical training agencies when, in fact, there is at least as much debate over the curriculum of these organizations. A case could be made that these companies are suffering from their own recreational dilemma. While the recreational agencies strive to assimilate the good parts of technical training (continued education, financial rewards and repeat students), technical agencies seem caught in a quest to enjoy the recreational community's strengths (simplicity of training and quantity of certifications). Consider for a moment the seemingly obvious: training agencies make money by training divers and renewing instructor certifications. The more individuals that move through their programs, the more successful the organization. How is a person seeking quality training supposed to make sense of the array of promises made by agencies and individuals? The claims to be the best, or of the greatest quality, seem to blend together, leaving individuals to make a sometimes difficult choice. A sensible course of action is to evaluate several personal factors associated with the instructor or agency. For example: What is the instructor's personal diving history? Unfortunately there seems to be a growing trend of instructors that teach activities for which they have little experience themselves. Even more common is for instructors to have almost no personal time in the activity under question but claim dozens or hundreds of dives that were made in an instructional setting. Be sure that your instructor does the kind of diving you are considering, and be sure they do so on their own time. This is the only way they can gain the experience that students will actually find useful. How often should an instructor teach and/or dive? While there are some very good instructors that teach casually (i.e. they have real jobs in addition to teaching) students should strive to get a feel for the time these individuals spend in the water. Instructors with regular jobs have one unique benefit in that they may be less caught up in the business of the certification process and be more inclined to focus on quality instruction. The downside is that their normal job, coupled with their teaching and a daily fitness routine, leaves precious little time for the personal dives that will make them a good source of information. Instructors that do not dive recreationally are not taxing their own ability and are not accumulating the experience that allows them to relay valuable information. Is the instructor involved in the diving community? While there may be a fair degree of dissidence in the diving community, look for an instructor that is in touch with current trends, techniques, and equipment. Maintaining an active role in the community and/or remaining in touch with current research is a serious obligation and one that too many instructors do not take to heart. Whether your instructor has been teaching one year or 30 years, there is still much to learn. You want to be sure that your instructor is a good source for the most current information. Does the instructor take their role seriously? Instructors that do not make an effort to remain current with new developments or do not maintain an elevated level of fitness are unlikely to be a very efficient educator. Maintaining a quality educational presence is about much more than an original investment. Instead it involves a great deal of dedication with regular fitness training, personal diving and academic review. Unfortunately, some educators tend to view instruction as a casual sideline. Educate yourself. The tricky used car salesman's biggest frustration is an educated consumer. If you are educated then you are likely to be able to sort out the inefficiencies in an instructor's abilities or to seek elaboration on areas that seem in conflict with your information. Regardless of your instructor's ability, you will gain a great deal from a strong period of pre-study. Do not be fooled by the discount structure. Nearly all individuals understand that in the grand scheme they get what we pay for. Unfortunately this knowledge rarely keeps people from trying to get more for less. Quality instruction is no exception, and educators that play pricing games or offer discount
training simply do not value their own time. It is ironic that people will spend thousands of dollars on equipment and travel, yet try to save a couple hundred on an education that could save their lives. Does the agency matter? The most common recommendation for finding a qualified educator is to ask friends and associates. While this is typically sound advice it leaves one to question the difference between agencies. After all, is not the main thrust of these different organizations better training? Why then would most people contend that looking at the agency is of little relative merit? In truth, most training is fairly similar and the requirements often barely distinguishable. Furthermore, most active instructors teach for a host of different organizations simply to meet different student preferences. The questions prospective individuals should ask about a qualifying agency are not unlike those asked of the individual instructor. In fact, one could ask to what degree the agency strives to insure their instructors' diving safety, experience, currency, fitness, and professionalism.
Global Underwater Explorers:
Why another agency? The perceived decline in educational excellence coupled with a rejection of the conventionally accepted risk of deep air diving has led numerous diving leaders to marshal their support behind a new educational effort. Global Underwater Explorers is a new organization founded by leading educators, scientists, and explorers to redefine the nature of aquatic education. This Cousteau- Society-meets-world-class-instructional- organization has the most stringent educational standards in the industry. As a largely volunteer based organization GUE is not subject to the same instructional concerns that plague typical organizations. While conventional training organizations support their efforts by training divers, GUE is a broad-based organization with a wide range of international research and exploration initiatives. Not only does this free the agency from the financial restraints imposed on other organizations, but this wide educational base also allows students and fellow educators access to an unprecedented
educational resource.
What can I do?
Individuals can have a positive impact on the educational community by supporting individuals and organizations that demand quality education and by placing a high value on the educational process. Educators and organizations tend to give people what they want and unfortunately people have been led to think they want shorter, less expensive courses. The student/customer is the one most hurt by the growing trend of simplified curriculums. And ironically the consumer is also in the best position to help redefine the nature of aquatic education. Nature has a habit of seeking the path of least resistance, and yet the greatest advances seem inextricably tied to the growth found in adversity. The infiltration of recreational agencies into technical diving and the increasing trend of simplified curriculums are clearly a path of reduced effort. However, in their hearts individuals are aware that time and effort are required to produce things of quality. Whether or not the rise in technical diving fatalities, the specter of government regulation or just plain common sense will encourage change in the educational community is yet to be seen. However, regardless of its direction the next decade of diving is sure to be at least as interesting as its defining history. For more information about curbing the trend toward lax training standards or for details about getting involved in educational and research activities please visit Global Underwater Explorers at www.gue.com.
Jarrod Jablonski is an avid cave explorer, researcher and instructor teaching and diving predominately in the North Florida area. His diving excursions frequently take him to some of the most remote reaches of the planet, including world record cave explorations to nearly three miles (18,000 feet) at a depth of 300 feet. Trained academically as a geologist, Jarrod has
founded Global Underwater Explorers (www.gue.com), an elite diver training agency that is heavily involved in international research and exploration projects. He has served as the Training Director for the National Association of Cave Diving (NACD) and on the training committee
for the National Speleological Society-Cave Diving Section (NSSCDS), National Association of Cave Diving, and the International Association of Nitrox and Technical Divers. He has also been a board member of both the NACD and the NSS-CDS. Jarrod has trained more than 1,500
divers while maintaining an active role as an explorer and researcher with thousands of hours in aquatic environments around the world.
The death of technical diving !
Change can come so quickly that sometimes it goes unnoticed. Many divers can remember that, in the not too distant past, groups like PADI marshaled to ban technical diving from the scuba industry's largest annual trade show. And diving leaders were outspoken against it, like SkinDiver editor Bill Gleason who led the charge, claiming that Enriched Air Nitrox was Snake Oil. Well, times are changing. Even PADI, a true bastion of recreational training, has an enriched air program. And agencies like NAUI are tugging hard on the purse strings of technical diving. NAUI is going full speed ahead with rebreather, deep air, and trimix training. It does not take a soothsayer to imagine a time when most recreational organizations will cross the technical frontier. This recent change of heart by recreational organizations leads one to ponder these rapidly changing times. For example, why are organizations, many of whom avoided the hint of technical diving like the plague, suddenly embracing technical diving with a new found fervor? Perhaps less obviously one might ask how these evolutions might change the very fabric of technical diving? For example, what defines technical diving if it becomes commonplace? The activities associated with technical diving (deep, non-standard gas mixtures, overhead environment) have always been a bit out of the mainstream. In fact, it was Mike Menduno's Aquacorps that first coined the term, and made its associated activity, more mainstream. Aquacorps, a now defunk magazine, was the first magazine to cater almost exclusively to this growing market. Many diving leaders paid only distant attention as Aquacorps and its flamboyant style began a dialogue that openly discussed historically taboo topics. Yet, as the numbers grew and new markets were developed, it became increasingly difficult to ignore their impact. Interestingly enough, this technical diving minority, seemed to be filled with the stuff of market analysts' dreams. While their ranks were small, the technical community contained active divers. They were willing to travel, and they liked to spend money. One can see evidence of the growing impact of technical diving by reviewing the growth of the companies and services that catered to their interests. Even solidly recreational manufacturers have begun to nip at this unique market. The financial incentives associated with the growth of technical diving bring us full circle and back to the interesting trend of open water agencies starting to embrace technical diving. The more mainstream aspect of technical diving has brought about many changes with multi-gas computers and commonly available rebreathers. How then is the changing landscape of dive training going to impact technical diving? One might naturally assume this change could be for the better as larger organizations bring their financial might and varied resources to bear in the creation of new training materials and a widely expanded market. Yet, others might be justified in their concerns as they ask if these organizations are qualified for such training? The standards by which one might evaluate the qualifications of individuals or organizations are fraught with personal opinions and individual bias. Consider some of the unique complications. Diving in general, and more particularly technical diving, is a self-regulated activity, forcing business entities to regulate and thereby limit their own business. Some might argue that this is a bit like asking the fox to regulate the hen house, but in the larger scheme it has met with fair success. Most probably, because it is in the best interest of all training organizations to prevent government intervention, thereby creating added incentive for self-regulation. Yet, we have seen a progressive trend toward easier courses and more streamlined training. Courses appear to be growing shorter and less academically robust every year. The "anyone can dive" mentality propagated by many mainstream recreational groups seems to conveniently impact the fiscal bottom line. The debate over what a student must do to become qualified is a matter of significant debate, but it is an inescapable reality that people grow better with experience. However, it seems to be more the rage to reduce educational time or even more recently to eliminate any specific time requirement. To be sure, diving on a calm day in warm water on a 30-foot deep reef is not filled with many difficulties. The simplicity of such activities has led to discussions of a coup in novice training, allowing individuals only the most minimal time before they are allowed to begin diving. Some individuals promote the elimination of many fundamentals in the training curriculum. Why waste time with tables when we have computers? And why bother with air sharing if we dive shallow? Certainly the declining time requirements associated with recreational training are a discussion unto themselves but this trend will necessarily have an impact upon technical diving. Consider that many leading technical educators already have great difficulty with the low knowledge and skill level of even advanced open water divers. Indeed, many an open water instructor has proven unqualified for certain forms of technical training. A further dimming of dive qualifications in the open water community coupled with the infiltration of recreational agencies into technical diving leads one to ponder the repercussions. Will the fiscal decisions and mass market demands that guide most businesses drag down the qualifications and ultimately the abilities of the technical diving student? What about the technical training agencies? The previous discussion has focused largely on the dilemma of recreational organizations entering the technical training arena. This might lead one to assume that some consensus exists as to the superiority of technical training agencies when, in fact, there is at least as much debate over the curriculum of these organizations. A case could be made that these companies are suffering from their own recreational dilemma. While the recreational agencies strive to assimilate the good parts of technical training (continued education, financial rewards and repeat students), technical agencies seem caught in a quest to enjoy the recreational community's strengths (simplicity of training and quantity of certifications). Consider for a moment the seemingly obvious: training agencies make money by training divers and renewing instructor certifications. The more individuals that move through their programs, the more successful the organization. How is a person seeking quality training supposed to make sense of the array of promises made by agencies and individuals? The claims to be the best, or of the greatest quality, seem to blend together, leaving individuals to make a sometimes difficult choice. A sensible course of action is to evaluate several personal factors associated with the instructor or agency. For example: What is the instructor's personal diving history? Unfortunately there seems to be a growing trend of instructors that teach activities for which they have little experience themselves. Even more common is for instructors to have almost no personal time in the activity under question but claim dozens or hundreds of dives that were made in an instructional setting. Be sure that your instructor does the kind of diving you are considering, and be sure they do so on their own time. This is the only way they can gain the experience that students will actually find useful. How often should an instructor teach and/or dive? While there are some very good instructors that teach casually (i.e. they have real jobs in addition to teaching) students should strive to get a feel for the time these individuals spend in the water. Instructors with regular jobs have one unique benefit in that they may be less caught up in the business of the certification process and be more inclined to focus on quality instruction. The downside is that their normal job, coupled with their teaching and a daily fitness routine, leaves precious little time for the personal dives that will make them a good source of information. Instructors that do not dive recreationally are not taxing their own ability and are not accumulating the experience that allows them to relay valuable information. Is the instructor involved in the diving community? While there may be a fair degree of dissidence in the diving community, look for an instructor that is in touch with current trends, techniques, and equipment. Maintaining an active role in the community and/or remaining in touch with current research is a serious obligation and one that too many instructors do not take to heart. Whether your instructor has been teaching one year or 30 years, there is still much to learn. You want to be sure that your instructor is a good source for the most current information. Does the instructor take their role seriously? Instructors that do not make an effort to remain current with new developments or do not maintain an elevated level of fitness are unlikely to be a very efficient educator. Maintaining a quality educational presence is about much more than an original investment. Instead it involves a great deal of dedication with regular fitness training, personal diving and academic review. Unfortunately, some educators tend to view instruction as a casual sideline. Educate yourself. The tricky used car salesman's biggest frustration is an educated consumer. If you are educated then you are likely to be able to sort out the inefficiencies in an instructor's abilities or to seek elaboration on areas that seem in conflict with your information. Regardless of your instructor's ability, you will gain a great deal from a strong period of pre-study. Do not be fooled by the discount structure. Nearly all individuals understand that in the grand scheme they get what we pay for. Unfortunately this knowledge rarely keeps people from trying to get more for less. Quality instruction is no exception, and educators that play pricing games or offer discount
training simply do not value their own time. It is ironic that people will spend thousands of dollars on equipment and travel, yet try to save a couple hundred on an education that could save their lives. Does the agency matter? The most common recommendation for finding a qualified educator is to ask friends and associates. While this is typically sound advice it leaves one to question the difference between agencies. After all, is not the main thrust of these different organizations better training? Why then would most people contend that looking at the agency is of little relative merit? In truth, most training is fairly similar and the requirements often barely distinguishable. Furthermore, most active instructors teach for a host of different organizations simply to meet different student preferences. The questions prospective individuals should ask about a qualifying agency are not unlike those asked of the individual instructor. In fact, one could ask to what degree the agency strives to insure their instructors' diving safety, experience, currency, fitness, and professionalism.
Global Underwater Explorers:
Why another agency? The perceived decline in educational excellence coupled with a rejection of the conventionally accepted risk of deep air diving has led numerous diving leaders to marshal their support behind a new educational effort. Global Underwater Explorers is a new organization founded by leading educators, scientists, and explorers to redefine the nature of aquatic education. This Cousteau- Society-meets-world-class-instructional- organization has the most stringent educational standards in the industry. As a largely volunteer based organization GUE is not subject to the same instructional concerns that plague typical organizations. While conventional training organizations support their efforts by training divers, GUE is a broad-based organization with a wide range of international research and exploration initiatives. Not only does this free the agency from the financial restraints imposed on other organizations, but this wide educational base also allows students and fellow educators access to an unprecedented
educational resource.
What can I do?
Individuals can have a positive impact on the educational community by supporting individuals and organizations that demand quality education and by placing a high value on the educational process. Educators and organizations tend to give people what they want and unfortunately people have been led to think they want shorter, less expensive courses. The student/customer is the one most hurt by the growing trend of simplified curriculums. And ironically the consumer is also in the best position to help redefine the nature of aquatic education. Nature has a habit of seeking the path of least resistance, and yet the greatest advances seem inextricably tied to the growth found in adversity. The infiltration of recreational agencies into technical diving and the increasing trend of simplified curriculums are clearly a path of reduced effort. However, in their hearts individuals are aware that time and effort are required to produce things of quality. Whether or not the rise in technical diving fatalities, the specter of government regulation or just plain common sense will encourage change in the educational community is yet to be seen. However, regardless of its direction the next decade of diving is sure to be at least as interesting as its defining history. For more information about curbing the trend toward lax training standards or for details about getting involved in educational and research activities please visit Global Underwater Explorers at www.gue.com.
Jarrod Jablonski is an avid cave explorer, researcher and instructor teaching and diving predominately in the North Florida area. His diving excursions frequently take him to some of the most remote reaches of the planet, including world record cave explorations to nearly three miles (18,000 feet) at a depth of 300 feet. Trained academically as a geologist, Jarrod has
founded Global Underwater Explorers (www.gue.com), an elite diver training agency that is heavily involved in international research and exploration projects. He has served as the Training Director for the National Association of Cave Diving (NACD) and on the training committee
for the National Speleological Society-Cave Diving Section (NSSCDS), National Association of Cave Diving, and the International Association of Nitrox and Technical Divers. He has also been a board member of both the NACD and the NSS-CDS. Jarrod has trained more than 1,500
divers while maintaining an active role as an explorer and researcher with thousands of hours in aquatic environments around the world.
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Дмитрий Шаповалов
- Активный участник
- Сообщения: 915
- Зарегистрирован: 22-10-2005 12:33
- Откуда: Киев
- Контактная информация:
Я думаю уместным было бы напомнить всем ярым противникам JJ и GI,особенно в свете последних событий на Красном море,что в GUE до сих пор не зарегестрировано ни одного смертного случая.Выводы делайте сами.
В который раз - я не ярый противник DIR/GUE, у меня вызывают отвращение их методы. Это во первых неэффективно, во вторых порождает побочные эффекты навроде DIR-неофитов и пр.Дмитрий Шаповалов писал(а):Я думаю уместным было бы напомнить всем ярым противникам JJ и GI,особенно в свете последних событий на Красном море,что в GUE до сих пор не зарегестрировано ни одного смертного случая.Выводы делайте сами.
Впрочем к чему мои умствования, у новодела DIR/GUE есть одно несомненное примущество - он идеально ложится на концепцию спортивного дайвинга как шоу-бизнеса.
Так что все верно, выводы пусть каждый делает сам.
Лично меня все это c позиции моего скромного жизненного опыта просто забавляет
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Дмитрий Шаповалов
- Активный участник
- Сообщения: 915
- Зарегистрирован: 22-10-2005 12:33
- Откуда: Киев
- Контактная информация:
А откуда вы знаете,какие методы у JJ? Вы проходили у него курсы?
Я не имею ввиду всех новомодных GUE идолопоклонников,а именно JJ ?
Я не имею ввиду всех новомодных GUE идолопоклонников,а именно JJ ?
Я уже несколько раз рассказывал где я был и что делал.
Но на курсах GUE я не был точно.
Более повторяться не буду, неинтересно.
Источник: http://www.lib.ru/STRUGACKIE/be_god.txt
Но на курсах GUE я не был точно.
Более повторяться не буду, неинтересно.
Источник: http://www.lib.ru/STRUGACKIE/be_god.txt
Небрежно кивнув в ответ на витиеватое приветствие, Румата сел в
кресло и положил ногу на ногу. Отец Кин остался стоять, согнувшись в позе
почтительного внимания.
- Ну, как дела? - спросил Румата благосклонно. - Одних грамотеев
режем, других учим?
Отец Кин осклабился.
- Грамотей не есть враг короля, - сказал он. - Враг короля есть
грамотей-мечтатель, грамотей усомнившийся, грамотей неверящий! Мы же
здесь...
- Ладно, ладно, - сказал Румата. - Верю. Что пописываешь? Читал я
твой трактат - полезная книга, но глупая. Как же это ты? Нехорошо.
Прокуратор!..
- Не умом поразить тщился, - с достоинством ответил отец Кин. -
Единственно, чего добивался, успеть в государственной пользе. Умные нам не
надобны. Надобны верные. И мы...
- Ладно, ладно, - сказал Румата. - Верю. Так пишешь что новое или
нет?
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Владимир Апуков
- Активный участник
- Сообщения: 2367
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- Откуда: СССР
ну что Вы ?!! наш Faceless выше этогоДмитрий Шаповалов писал(а):А откуда вы знаете,какие методы у JJ? Вы проходили у него курсы?
Я не имею ввиду всех новомодных GUE идолопоклонников,а именно JJ ?
и борьбу с идолопоклонством давно превратил в клоунаду почище самого идолопоклонства
С уважением, Владимир Апуков.
P.S. если GUE все таки религия, то они рано или поздно сделают ему аутодафе
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Дмитрий Шаповалов
- Активный участник
- Сообщения: 915
- Зарегистрирован: 22-10-2005 12:33
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- Контактная информация:
Уважаемый АДМИН! Есть предложение переместить ветку в МЕДИА.Очень хорошие,познавательные тексты.
Ну что ж не впервой, в другой жизни со мной это уже пытались проделатьApukov писал(а): ну что Вы ?!! наш Faceless выше этого
и борьбу с идолопоклонством давно превратил в клоунаду почище самого идолопоклонства
С уважением, Владимир Апуков.
P.S. если GUE все таки религия, то они рано или поздно сделают ему аутодафе
Будет особенно забавно, если в костер положить китайские фейерверки
Главное чтобы почтенная публика денужки в касcу платила
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SVD
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IMHO сразу во "Флейм"...Дмитрий Шаповалов писал(а):Уважаемый АДМИН! Есть предложение переместить ветку в МЕДИА.Очень хорошие,познавательные тексты.
__________________
С уважением,
модератор раздела
Никогда не спорьте с идиотом. Он опустит Вас на свой уровень, а там задавит опытом.
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Григорий Сарычев
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Гражданин Фейслез на секунду отлип от иконостаса с изображениями Маунта и иже с ним и как танк на гнилой штакетник налетел на мерзкий сектантский новодел.
Ату его, ату!!!
Ату его, ату!!!
Григорий. писал(а):Гражданин Фейслез на секунду отлип от иконостаса с изображениями Маунта и иже с ним и как танк на гнилой штакетник налетел на мерзкий сектантский новодел.
Ату его, ату!!!
Не ребятки, вы пока мне не интересны, потом поиграюсь в вашу игру,ежели настроение подходящее будет.
Собстнно, вся моя клоунада в течение последних 2 месяцев предназначалась для двух людей, читающих данный форум. Хотя вначале я думал что только для одного, но "как причудливо тасуется колода" (ц) Булгаков. И я искренне рад за то что они достигли требуемого результата, так как я в первую очередь человек практический. Надеюсь, они простят меня, ну что с дурака взять
Правда один "редиска такая" еще колеблется, но я надеюсь что он все-таки решится на столь неблагодарное, рискованное и ответственное занятие к коему я его так занудно и неуклонно толкаю.
Да, и еще - снимаю шляпу перед модератором технического раздела, человек что называется "на своем месте", очень профессиональная работа в качестве модератора.
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Григорий Сарычев
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Открою вам тайну, вы тоже мало кому интересны, кроме, пожалуй, собственой семьи.Faceless писал(а):Григорий. писал(а):Гражданин Фейслез на секунду отлип от иконостаса с изображениями Маунта и иже с ним и как танк на гнилой штакетник налетел на мерзкий сектантский новодел.
Ату его, ату!!!
Не ребятки, вы пока мне не интересны...
Такому архату как вы вообще не надо учится, мнение о том, чего не знаете у вас один черт незыблемо.Faceless писал(а):потом поиграюсь в вашу игру,ежели настроение подходящее будет.
Ну, да, конечно, конечно. В этом и сомнений то нет.Faceless писал(а):Собстнно, вся моя клоунада в течение последних 2 месяцев предназначалась для двух людей, читающих данный форум. Хотя вначале я думал что только для одного, но "как причудливо тасуется колода" (ц) Булгаков.
Вы так любите сыпать цытатами, что я тоже выдам одну:Faceless писал(а):И я искренне рад за то что они достигли требуемого результата, так как я в первую очередь человек практический.
"Этот молодой человек чуть меня самого не свел с ума, убеждая меня, что меня не существует" (с) "Мастер и Маргарита"
Не забыли в завершение отметить, что вы не жалея сил тренируетесь (?) дабы осуществить "безумства" о которых вы не устанно твердили на форуме.Faceless писал(а): Надеюсь, они простят меня, ну что с дурака взять
Правда один "редиска такая" еще колеблется, но я надеюсь что он все-таки решится на столь неблагодарное, рискованное и ответственное занятие к коему я его так занудно и неуклонно толкаю.
Это вообще без комментариев.Faceless писал(а):Да, и еще - снимаю шляпу перед модератором технического раздела, человек что называется "на своем месте", очень профессиональная работа в качестве модератора.
Успехов вам, Фейслез, хороших и разных.
Мальчик в попытке сарказма выдал очень уместную цитату.Григорий. писал(а): Вы так любите сыпать цытатами, что я тоже выдам одну:
"Этот молодой человек чуть меня самого не свел с ума, убеждая меня, что меня не существует" (с) "Мастер и Маргарита"
Ну надо же, вы меня весьма позабавили.
А повторить трюк сможете ?
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Григорий Сарычев
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Это вы забавите всех и каждого, мой юный друг.Faceless писал(а):Мальчик в попытке сарказма выдал очень уместную цитату.Григорий. писал(а): Вы так любите сыпать цытатами, что я тоже выдам одну:
"Этот молодой человек чуть меня самого не свел с ума, убеждая меня, что меня не существует" (с) "Мастер и Маргарита"
Ну надо же, вы меня весьма позабавили.
А повторить трюк сможете ?
Строчите, не останавливайтесь.
Н-да, не смог. Жаль.Григорий. писал(а):Это вы забавите всех и каждого, мой юный друг.Faceless писал(а):Мальчик в попытке сарказма выдал очень уместную цитату.Григорий. писал(а): Вы так любите сыпать цытатами, что я тоже выдам одну:
"Этот молодой человек чуть меня самого не свел с ума, убеждая меня, что меня не существует" (с) "Мастер и Маргарита"
Ну надо же, вы меня весьма позабавили.
А повторить трюк сможете ?
Строчите, не останавливайтесь.
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Ranger
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Андрей, а тебе не кажется, что в своей "нелюбви" к DIR вообще и GUE в частности, ты... как бы это по вежливей... потерял чувство меры? Чем ты отличаешься от GUE-неофитов? Можешь на меня обижаться, но сейчас уже ничем: они слепо, не задумываясь хвалят свое и ругают чужое.. ты - делаешь тоже самое.
Юр, как я писал ранее, вся моя клоунада в течение последних 2 месяцев предназначалась для двух людей, читающих данный форум.Ranger писал(а):Андрей, а тебе не кажется, что в своей "нелюбви" к DIR вообще и GUE в частности, ты... как бы это по вежливей... потерял чувство меры? Чем ты отличаешься от GUE-неофитов? Можешь на меня обижаться, но сейчас уже ничем: они слепо, не задумываясь хвалят свое и ругают чужое.. ты - делаешь тоже самое.
С DIR/GUE мне давным-давно все ясно, моя показная "борьба с ветряными мельницами" была инструментом. Цель была в другом, и я скромно питаю надежды что я ее достиг, хотя - кто знает ...
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gumanoid
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А остальных Вы, выходит, попросту провоцировалиFaceless писал(а):вся моя клоунада в течение последних 2 месяцев предназначалась для двух людей, читающих данный форум
? Как-то это, м-м-м, малопочтенно, уж извините великодушно. ИМХО, само собой.PADI MSD,
Tmx IANTD
Tmx IANTD
Дык издержки, ептыть.gumanoid писал(а):А остальных Вы, выходит, попросту провоцировалиFaceless писал(а):вся моя клоунада в течение последних 2 месяцев предназначалась для двух людей, читающих данный форум
Интернет - место общего пользования во всех смыслах, что ж поделаешь.
И потом, для меня Интернет - среда непривычная, видимо отсюда и куча ошибок и излишеств.